rip ammo lawsuit

Get what you want, shoot what you want, but until you use it on live animals in a hunting situation, you don’t know a damn thing. But that said, the only thing it really brings to the table that’s new (a big shallow surface wound) is done at the expense of delivering destruction where you want and need it – by putting the biggest possible bullet deep within the body. They make .410 handguns. I think it’s a very valid point about what your local DA will make of a ‘self defense’ shooting by someone using such a ‘deadly’ round. The FBI uses organic professional ballistic gel which is made from powdered pork skin. ammo simply because of the way it looks and is advertised…this would NOT look good in a Court of Law! Fun trivia: I think the most useless gun marketed as a self-defense pistol was the 2.7mm Kolibri, which produces something like 2 to 3 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. Everyone knows that you do not point a gun at anything unless you intend to destroy it. My Glock 19 is 100 percent with a large variety of ammo through it, an ammo with known feed issues in a 19 is something I would absolutely avoid. That’s really not something you want to have happen with your self defense ammo. Heck, I’d rather use a regular old FNFMJ 180gr round from my G27 than take chances in court with R.I.P. Gel????? Hopefully I’ll stop seeing people sending me emails about this ammo now that it’s been exposed as essentially a marketing ploy, which I suspected it would be from the get go. Again, thank you for the thorough and informative review! circumstances were it had only been dirtied up by 50 res (9mm). Your video reviews have become the deciding factor with my self defense ammo purchases, based on this one, I’ll be sticking to federal premium HST in 9mm. The box uses a window like Barnes TAC-XP rounds do, but, unlike Barnes’s box, the G2 Research R.I.P. There’s no denying there’s a lot of interest in G2 Research’s new R.I.P. Some places will consider a tungsten-containing anything “armor piercing” and restrict it. But it looks close. Would I trust these rounds to preform as hyped? Thanks again to ShootingTheBull410 for his testing that removes the hype and presents the facts clearly, without bias or waffling. Because, whether you liked the tone of my presentation or not, the fact remains that the testing is absolutely accurate, and has been replicated by others. They don’t. (Radically Invasive Projectile) cartridge with the intention of providing a defensive projectile that will defeat common barriers and heavy clothing, and still expand and separate into individual fragments for enhanced lethality. What do you think you’re doing when you doubletap c.o.m.? Lehigh Defense does make a 9mm version. I must admit I was a little curious about the ‘performance’ of this round. I Appreciate the technical info in this article, but the fact that the writer decided to start getting into fantasy television legal mumbo jumbo really hurts the credibility overall. Assuming it feeds reliably, it’d keep me happy. Sig Sauer. Or don’t – and just get a proven JHP. So what this tells me is that their bullet should have no more than three trocars, and that they should not necessarily separate from the base. If you shoot and kill someone, you have to be able to prove that you did so because you believed your life was in danger. If it *doesn’t* fragment, it’s not going to be the RIP-concept anymore and be just another low-mass 9mm. The number one rule of self defense, if you attack me or my family, I WILL kill you. Then decide. Absolute garbage ammo!!! People use guns EXACTLY because they kill the attacker. Seems gimmicky to me, I am still convinced a good quality bonded jacket HP is the way to go. Balance these effectively and you have a fight stopping combination. Note, that’s not the same as 4″ in a body, it’s 4″ in gel. Such a waste of webspace. The most woefully inadequate self defense round is actually the .25 ACP. That’s my problem too. FREE SHIPPING on Over 250,000 Products. If i were to put somebody’s life in danger and they were to shoot me…i would NOT want to be shot by ONE round that does that much damage… even if it doesnt go all the way through you, you are going to have several fragments left inside you, imagine how much worse it would be to be shot by that compared to a lead point or fmj that MOST people carry with them? We conducted testing in two phases – basic gel testing and more advanced testing for claims on barrier penetration, and against conventional rounds. Any kind of internal, solid impact (bone) – however light – is going to send the base off on a different vector. For the dumb ass who confuses protecting your life with defending your self from an old-fashioned ass kicking shouldn’t be carrying a firearm in the first place. And boy did that round peel and mushroom and so what it was supposed to. It’s like describing a truck’s towing capacity in Priuses. Your shot to wound theory hurts the victim in the long run and opens any defense up to broader scope of vulnerabilities. ^ exactly. To try to quantify the “lethality” of rounds from a legal standpoint displays the height of ignorance. Yeah, it’s gonna be an NFA item, but if you want to build something like that – sell it to the Army. This stuff looks dangerous, to the shooter. -but yes, I’ll read the next installment. No wonder there initial video used full auto pistols, the gel certainly looks like burger after being saturated with these ‘trocars’ (nice term but inaccurate at best), but then again 32 rapid hits from any sort of 9mm would make a mess. So the aforementioned data are irrelevant to YOUR personal bullet selection. 357 SIG RIP Ammo - 20rds. do you guys think that 1 failure out of 600ish rounds through a xd is enough to be concerned over? We got our hands on some of the G2’s uber ammo, courtesy of the fine people at www.ammotogo.com. If a round fails to fire, instead of the stupid time consuming option of clearing the action of a semi-auto, with a revolver, simply pull the trigger again. I’ve got a bersa 380 that I’ve shot over 1k rounds through and no ftf, or misfires, does that mean it magically turned into a glock? Thank you for the unbiased review as always Mr. Now that we know that conventional ammo can create permanent damage that closely resembles the magnitude of permanent damage attainable by an R.I.P. Its called reasonable force Walter. You set out to prove how bad this ammo is, but all the results you obtained actually point the opposite direction. From just what you’ve shown so far, it’s clear that an XTP .380 round is going to be a better terminal-performer than the 9mm RIP. And when we didn’t have any ammo to test, we were able to use some elementary deductive skills and basic logic (along with some junior-high-school math) to determine that some of their marketing claims were, to put it kindly, hogwash. The last round you'll ever need G2 Research R.I.P. I wish you had a block of gel shot with a HST to compare to the RIP round. He still recommends higher capacity lighter recoiling pistols to his students, but now he admits that if you’ve practiced to the point that missing isn’t an option and can deliver follow ups at such speeds from a .45 you are in no way disadvantaged by it’s capacity since no sane person could dispute 9 center of mass hits from a .45 is a decisive game changer in a fight. Can you now? More STB410”. Shop now and get Free Value Shipping on most orders over $49 to the contiguous 48 states, DC and to all U.S. Military APO/FPO/DPO addresses.. You can review the gel block test, including the results and comparison, in this video: For those who’d rather read than watch, here’s the gist: G2’s R.I.P. No one’s done this before because mathematically it’s a bad idea to begin with. When dead after a head shot, found my first round in shoulder didn’t penetrate past the skin. I do bethink these guys are probably some smart guys that love to shoot and actually came up with a facinatingly new bullet. That’s what happens when you cast a hollow point with a too hard too brittle alloy. Bullshit is bullshit no matter the flavor. The refined young lady was likely better off sticking an attacker with her hat pin. Sadly, it won’t transfer much shockwave even as it passes through your soft armor and the entirety of your trunk. Yep, you missed something in the text. So they do what a Critical Defense will, without any plastic pellet insert, but with even better performance. “Where’s the denim?” Did I miss something in the text? The GLOCK 19 is almost the definition of a conventional-sized pistol. This round does not appropriately balance these factors. (Pressure increases with more rapid deceleration.) Choose from thousands of products and deals, directly from our warehouse @ AmmoFreedom.com Ranger-T does this by having the unusually thick lips of the copper jacket readily peel open and take the pre-incised core with it. That’s a good chunk of change, even with regular priced ammo. We would otherwise be shooting at practice targets that would clearly be bullseyed to brachial nerves and pressure points rather than those that we currently test out with that clearly train us to go for the head and chest cavities in the most lethal areas of the body. I still love my goldens and have 1000+ of them but I did buy some HSTs for the wife’s carry rig. Second, you’ll need to drop a few HUNDRED dollars worth of this ammo, just to see if it cycles in your weapon reliably and hits to point of aim. I wouldn’t carry them but they are cool looking. R.I.P. I keep 4 mags loaded with defense ammo and train with 5 other mags. 90% shooters are not qualified to make such an argument, you aim center mass , because with all the stress, and fear that you have that is the largest target area. Before we’d ever shot together he insisted that my choice of the 1911 was a mistake and that higher capacity count would trump the power/wounding advantage of the .45. Aguila Ammunition, Pistol, 357 Mag, 158 Grain, Semi Jacketed Soft Point Product Specifications ... CLASSIC PISTOL CENTERFIRE AMMUNITION 45 AUTO 185 GR. I waited for 4 months and never received what I ordered. A useful follow-up would be to describe how many shots from your .22 it would take to duplicate the damage from an established defense round. G2R went to a lot of trouble to engineer produce these rounds. They’re only calling the things “trocars” here since they’re triangular in profile and “because Marketing”. This could be operator error or ammo error if the case overall length is too short and it slides forward during shooting. This all came about because LE agencies and LE officers ignored Glocks clearly written warnings not to use lead bullets and reloads. We carry a wide range of handgun ammo, rifle ammo, rimfire ammo, and shotgun ammo in-stock and ready-to-ship at low prices. If you want an exotic round, go with Lehigh Defense Max Expansion. Based on the obvious bias from author of that review, who bashed it before he even had any, I don’t give it merit. If you are civilian not shooting through things and aiming for the center of chest or the head, there are to facts about the target that greatly reduce the need for big penetration. That means it’s better for the bullet to retain it’s mass rather than shed it’s mass through ‘frangibles’ (ie -trocars) which then create separate mini-wound channels instead and (in this case) do not seem have enough mass in themselves to consistently penetrate sufficiently to make up for losing that mass (and expansion) along the main wound channel, (presumably towards vitals). I called the company around the end of august 2014 and they said that they never sent it out and that they would refund my money. You might want to check with your lawyer or get a better one. I disregard the damage the trocars inflict because they only penetrate to 4″ of ballistic gel. The trocars are interesting, but is the point to do belly shots? But at today’s prices, wouldn’t it be cheaper to practice with 100 rounds of this stuff than the 7×100 equivalent rounds of .22LR? I mean, maybe a .5sec burst could essentially unstitch whatever part of what it is you’re shooting at, but go too crazy and pesky physics get in the way. It may be a good for testing but it is not a human body. G2 Research RIP 45 Auto 162 grain Lead Free Box... $69.99 Add to Cart Winchester PDX1 Elite Defender 40 S&W 165 ... PMC 308 Win 147 gr FMJ BT Box of 20 308B. Moving on, let’s get to the ballistic performance. Saying that 3 rounds of one bullet is better than 1 round of another bullet isn’t particularly informative. More Fun Trivia: Colibri means ‘hummingbird’, which seems appropriate. The brain is mainly fluid and the shock wave going through it courses neuron damage. They say you should fire a warning shot and if that doesn’t work, aim for a leg. So what kind of devastating, ultra-powerful ammo did it take to make this comparable damage? Your comments are and knowledge of law are lacking ( Not trying to insult anyone, just not good with tact). Vicious even. Wow! It also needs to be transported in a refrigerated state and shot when it’s between four and five degrees celsius. Rob Boudrie. S.Crock, If that one in six hundred failed round was the one that would have saved your life! Its not a super bullet but it does fragment nicely. Its like this so that people dont get away with murder. If he winds up in the obituaries, he ended it too. FOR BEGINNERS: How Many Magazines Should You Have. Much appreciated! it was like a failure to load but almost like a stovepipe with a non spent round. When you are being attacked you cannot stop and take notes on whether the attack is intended to just rattle you or kill you. Look at the be-yoo-ti-ful pattern the point of impact makes. When one is attacked, one does, of course, try to “stop the threat.” So, how do we stop the threat? Completely biased from the first paragraph. It’s something I struggle with in carrying a 1911. If someone comes up and smacks you then yes you cannot just shoot someone. I chose that round because I figured the G2 R.I.P.’s base would probably be about half its bullet weight (and I was right, it weighs in at 48.4 grains) and so a 60-grain .22LR would probably come close to matching it for penetration, and I was spot on. Don’t worry. Our offerings available in a 223 Ammo Can or 223 Ammo Box. Otherwise, you could be charged with manslaughter, murder, etc. But still, it shouldn’t contact the slide lock unless the bullet is wider than normal at the front. You don’t like the idea of multiple bullet wound paths out-wounding and out-stopping your traditional hollow-point. CA and NY are probably already working on it. I am half a sleep so half of this or all of it may or may not make any sense. Magic bullet not so magical eh? I shot him at 8 yards in his chest cavity. One of the first things that they will attack you on is this : ” If you were not threaten enough that it warranted lethal force, why did you equip and use lethal force?”. It was determined that the skin itself is so tough on a live human that it equals the resistance of 3″-4″ of ballistics gelatin. I agree. I shoot the 1911 better than any other handgun bar none and at defensive ranges (or in a calm state with deliberate fire to 50 yards) I have absolutely no doubt in my ability to rapidly empty it to slide lock with all rounds impacting the torso. If anyone on here has taken a hand gun carry course, they would know that intentional wounding during self defense (though a seemingly moralistic response) is actually illegal. Any loss of weight adversely affects performance and that is why the Lehigh rounds work so well, they stay together and turn into a ,75 inch projectile. As for their motivation — sure, I believe they thought they were on to something. Deadly force isn’t just to knock down your attacker it is to eliminate the threat. The only time it isn’t a failure is in frangible ammo made to reduce ricochet (primarily for shooting steel targets) or in “exotic” ammo where the boutique manufacturer makes exaggerated marketing claims of various sorts. It looks like a shuriken or a spider. Agreed. property) is threatened. Most vital organs are at a relative shallow depth. It did not, however, meet their listed specifications. Some folks may hate Glocks, but the Glock 19 has a well-deserved reputation for reliability. You have to take the base plate off and wipe the mags out. .45 Features: The G2 Research R.I.P. No matter how they “tweak” the design, it’s still going to be a 45 grain, fmj projectile along with some very-low-mass fragments. I wonder if Hornady gave you any freebies for that plug? as far as it being revolutionary it is. The central core continuing on reduces that somewhat, but you're still well above the 500 psi hydrostatic effect baseline. You should look at the multiple test’s that place ribs at he front of their ballistics media and show the wound paths continue into the body. I would hate to give up penetration depth and having a larger bullet striking deep in the body, in exchange for some superficial flesh wounding at 4” deep (and note, that’s 4” in gel, not 4” in a body – it’d be shallower in a body, and may not even get past the ribcage.) i loaded it back up and it worked. From a handgun. People, if you should insist on carrying this crap, please go shoot 50 rounds of it first. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. …yeah, me too. i think it is the ammo, because reloads from the same place had a ftf in the 38. it did have a solid hit on the primer. In short, it doesn’t make sense. Great article, now I can make an informed decision of not buying it! and modifies the round to perform as expected I would say lbf (810 J) in 12 inches (0.30 m) of penetration). That’s why it’s called “science”, actually; controlled-condition examples that show reliably repeatable results. Shooting the Bull! Lawyers everywhere are laughing at you. Don”t know about 9mm, but the .45 did a job on that pig. That has got to be one of the more asinine things I have ever seen. This definitely proves true the argument that in a self defense situation, we are trained to and “must” shoot to kill the aggressor using lethal methodologies and tactics. And I would take a piece of masking tape(Keep some in your range gear) and mark the mag that round got wonky from. There were tungsten-cored Dangerous Game loads a while back but got taken off the market in part because of that. How will the sharpened, jagged edges of R.I.P.s affect reliable feeding? Gimmick. Dead men don’t talk, and all you have to do is yell “Get out m************, or I’ll blow your head off”, then do it. This performs about as I expected. The solution to your above problem comes straight from every video game ever: more bullets. Of course, I could point out that there’s no definition of such a thing as “FBI ballistics gel,” and that the picture looks like it’s probably from a block of Clear Ballistics gel, Perma-Gel or some other synthetic clear gel. Anyways, I needed to go with you on your just I'm not a supporter of the design of this ammunition, there are plenty of JHP rounds that do an effective job. Perhaps G2 is onto something that further refinement will revolutionize things. That and it’s not very, well, elegant. But I'm not sure there is any "proof" that this ammunition is "crap", although the price seems outrageous for what your getting. Find single boxes and bulk ammo from top brands like CCI, Federal, Hornady, Tula and Winchester. Now THAT was a RIP(ping) round! I actually think you are shooting a fair amount of bull yourself. So if you fear eminent bodily harm you shot to kill, your not a trained professional that knows how to react under fire. San Francisco has tried to ban all HPs–but the Chief of Police, recognizing the invalidity of the statute, has said that it is enforceable only against he original Black Talon. Hornady. The comparison tests are always key, aren’t they? I don’t think they add anything to the terminal performance. It’s the follower in the magazine that pushes up on and activates the slide lock. I believe that if someone breaks into your house at zero dark thirty, they mean you and your family bodily harm and it is an inalienable right to self defense. Not feeding 100% in a Glock is a major deal breaker. I enjoyed his review, and found his comparison test (against the 3-part 22LR) creative and amusing. The laws of physics can be bent. Please contact us for inventory status. I’m much more inclined to clean my other magazines that don’t suck to take apart. Your methodology is entirely wrong here. Use factory ammo and plated bullets as instructed and Glocks are almost idiot proof. . Also, being a female, any age person, whether it be a child, teen, adult, or old person, that comes into my house uninvited…………..will not be leaving. Indeed. A place for responsible gun owners and enthusiasts to talk about guns without the politics. This. Glock rebuilt a G22 with around 5K on it and it wasnt malfunctioning, it was just weakly extracting. But think about this for a minute — don’t you think it’s highly irresponsible for them to go making exaggerated claims about their product’s performance, when people are literally betting their life on the product? . From what my concealed carry teacher told me (also a 20 yr. vet with the police department), you DO NOT ever pull your gun to scare or deter. So eminent danger = Deadly force. Keep up the good work. As for penetration, on the back of the box they claim 15” to 17”. You know when I first read your comments Luke, I really tried to stay away from this. One round. One whole test. Let’s consider our first impressions, though. You have entered an incorrect email address! The ones that claim to be the best usually can’t hang with the rest. Stick with the HST’s, gold dots or ranger T’s. * Inventory changes daily & prices subject to change. Fact is that you should not pull your weapon period, unless you feel that your life( or in some cases law providing . I would rather have a catastrophic failure with a Glock than a 1911 as far as minimising damage to my hands. projectile. It stagnates a “defense motive” by showing that an alleged victim had time to think about what they were doing and make a moral decision rather than rely on training which clearly is devised to terminate a threat rather than wound it. From what I’ve seen in big game bullets on big game, when a bullet sheds mass early in the wound channel, penetration is compromised, and the wound track after the mass shedding is reduced in permanent size. If you’ve done everything right, that BB needs to penetrate approximately 8.5 cm +/- 10%. ammo in the real world in controlled testing scenarios. Black Hills Lawman 200gr hollow points moving off at about 1050 fps in my 5″ barrel. And yet the trocars are also too small and penetrate little. G2 Research has created their "R.I.P." There are a couple of reasons why I’m using ballistic gelatin for testing: first, because it’s the industry standard, used by all professional ammunition evaluation organizations. It expands more reliably….but the Critical Defense/Duty rounds still don’t expand as much as the real premium brands do. Thats just insane, or in your case, filler for an argument you are trying to make about a product you disdain and are seeking to damage by way of an “impartial” review. (490/300) *500 / (5/12) = 1959 psi. Why in the heck would a responsible CHL holder carry a round who’s design is obviously to kill vs stopping a threat? [42] Incapacitating effects in this range of energy transfer are consistent with observations of remote spinal injuries,[27] observations of suppressed EEGs and apnea in pigs[38][46] and with observations of incapacitating effects of ballistic pressure waves without a wound channel.[47]. “If a prosecutor could prove that you intended and set about to kill an attacker, your claim of self defense might just go out the window.”. No, we couldn’t say that the ammo did or didn’t perform well, as we hadn’t tested it. In 9mm, .40, or .45, I’d take any of the four (HST, Ranger-T, Gold Dot, or Golden Sabre) over any of the Hornady XTP designs. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Dec 7, 2014 #8/26 not compatible with Glock and its unsupported chambers. Now, if you want to shoot somebody while inside a spaceship, I can see why you’d want a frangible round. I can build a system to deliver sub-millimeter needles through soft armor anytime. You analysis using the total surface area is not accurate. Things are different now, though . So lets not bash them for trying something new, just for their snake oil salesman approach. So I wanted to see what the HST did, so I cut open the coyote to see his inards. As a former officer, I can assure you the only thing that really matters when it comes to self defense is being able to articulate that you were in real fear for your life or the life of another when defending your actions. It does occur to me that since the first part of the testing proves the round a joke, unsatisfactory for self-defense, there is no reason to read further parts of the test. Unfortunately for us, the Aguila SSS round yawed halfway through the block, which made its damage path much bigger than the G2 R.I.P.’s, so it doesn’t look quite identical. What company does not over-hype their product to sell it? The kind of performance that will (in the words of the company) “take out all the vital organs” or that will “change the ballistics industry”? So the cops knew that Internal Affairs was setting them up!? It always enters with a big splash, and it always goes away quickly. And now we’ve conducted the world’s first independent review of the ammo’s actual performance. The low energy of a .380 means that the breaking-effect of bullet expansion will stop any of the “excellent performers” short of penetrating deep enough for a reliably-debilitating wound. That’s why we don’t all carry some variation of fragmenting rounds already. “The last round did not advance before the slide locked so the pistol functioned properly as if the mag was empty”. BTW, I hate taking Glock mag baseplates off. actually exceeded the manufacturer’s rating. Lets see if the company tweaks In reality, it’s not a big deal. After all when you are pushed in to a situation where you must defend your life it becomes a matter of who is going g to walk a way and who getsplaced in a body bag. is your one-stop shop for ammunition. I hope they learn from it and refine the bullet. There’s no denying there’s a lot of interest in G2 Research’s new R.I.P. No. Saving that one up for a year+? In .380 though, the XTP weakness turns into a strength. I have on there. So it is not that you are completely wrong when you talk about possible consequences, but your shoot to wound theory you got running there is dead wrong. The problem was with the magazine. A 9mm with 350 or 400 ft/lbs. Note though that the Critical Defense version of the .380 ends up opening too fast again and stopping the round too early. It’s like a bird shot hit from a shotgun, terrifying damage to the surface and near surface tissues, insufficient penetration to force a stop. To me, that’s a lousy tradeoff. I have an acquaintance who is a firearms instructor. This was an idea that was doomed to inadequacy from the word “go”. Maybe, maybe not, but the entire established body of science in terminal ballistics shows that terminal effectiveness in handguns comes from bullets that penetrate deeply, in excess of 12″ in ballistic gel. G2 Research lawyers will be meeting on monday to talk about this. But that’s a two-edged sword, because if bigger is better, then why would you want to use the G2 R.I.P.’s tiny little 48-grain .36” projectile, when you could use a Federal HST instead and get a much-larger, 124-grain, .52” projectile? Further, he spews on some crap about not wanting to “kill and intruder, just stop them” for lawyer’s sake. Got a larger pig tonight, nit in shoulder while moving, dropped dead in it’s tracks.

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