elmax knife steel nerds

I have not tested the toughness of CPM D2 yet. Bohler and Uddeholm claim that their version is an improvement on the older 10V. Hello. Vanax and Elmax have a similar amount of carbide/nitride, but the Vanax has smaller particles, which may explain why it has improved toughness in comparison to Elmax. I'm back with another RFI for my favorite group of like-minders. I don’t know what reticulated refractory filters are, unfortunately. Steels beginning with a number and C are carbon steels, the opposite. A layer of conductive slag on the liquid steel surface allows the electrodes to heat the steel and offers some protection from the atmosphere. Typically recycled steels have less than 0.1% tungsten. An N690co steel knife offers great edge retention, excellent corrosion resistance, good toughness, and wear resistance, so the answer is, Yes. hardness; inspired mostly by Becut & B70P Yes–I own knives in varied higher end steels, but I really do not care for them at all compared to my basic steels. The carbide content can be thought of as setting the “upper limit” of potential toughness. 11/18/2019: I’ve added ZDP-189, Super Gold 2, and VG-10. Knife blade – only a handle to add. Manufactured in the US, designed to last a lifetime. You can read about different carbide types in this article. Domain ID : 2234364810_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN Created : 2nd-Mar-2018. It is clear there is a correlation between carbide volume and toughness but there is a significant amount of scatter for the reasons described above. 12/2/2019: I added CPM-M4, S60V, S110V, S45VN, and 19C27. “O-1 is an ideal steel for edged weapons and tools because it is known for its ability to be differentially heat treated.” The biggest issue with the design is that I don’t think it will reach high enough levels of hardness. Steels patina in the acid at varying rates which allows for one steel to etch darker than the other and show that famous patterned contrast. About the only knife that I really care for in these steels is my Spyderco Para2 in S30V. The 2.7 inch blade is formed from premium Bohler ELMAX stainless steel, with a Rockwell hardness of 61. Top 10 related websites. A nitrogen measurement of M390 from 1995 reported 0.11% in one heat and 0.15% in another [10]. ... Pocket Knife, 3.4” Stonewashed 14C28N Steel Blade, Anodized Aluminum Handle with Black Trac-Tec Inserts, SpeedSafe Open, Reversible Pocketclip; 3.9 OZ. The B-U process also directly encapsulates the powder for the HIP process to avoid effects of handling powder, since sand and other impurities can end up in the powder, and the high surface area powder is prone to oxidation. I don’t know if anything so specific could be surmised from these two images. Folding Knives with Elmax Steel Automatic Knife Ordering Agreement IN COMPLIANCE WITH FEDERAL STATUTES , KnifeCenter, Inc requests that you read carefully the requirements set forth below, and agree to this prior to your purchase or receipt of any automatic opening knife from our company. Knife Steel Nerds; Some Slideshows I've Made; $50 Knife Shop; Canadian Knifemaker (forum) Anvil Fire - Heat Treating; Knife Network - Newbies; Ray Rogers Handcrafted Knives ; Canadian Knifemaker Supply; Sites of Interest to Knifemakers. Silicon 0.80%. Maybe I am wrong about this, but it seems worth exploring. One of my first articles was a small collection of electron microscope images that I commissioned. Your email address will not be published. In the future I would like to add more steels. 1-16 of 121 results for "knife elmax" Skip to main search results Eligible for Free Shipping. I won’t be able to describe all of those methods in this article, however. The reason for the better toughness of CPM-154 is not known to me. I recently purchased equipment to polish steel for metallography. Ja, bitte R'n'R nicht vergessen, es sind schon 30 min. Knife Steel Nerds; Some Slideshows I've Made; $50 Knife Shop; Canadian Knifemaker (forum) Anvil Fire - Heat Treating; Knife Network - Newbies; Ray Rogers Handcrafted Knives; Canadian Knifemaker Supply; Sites of Interest to Knifemakers. We can now compare our toughness measurements with carbide structure. Like many other very high wear resistance stainless steels ( S90V , M398 ) it was developed for plastic injection applications which necessitate a combination of high wear resistance and high corrosion resistance. In the early 1900s, high carbon-high chromium steels were developed, and during World War I in England they were used as an alternative to high speed steels with high tungsten content. Limited toughness testing comparisons between the manufacturers also did not reveal clear differences between them. | Check out 'Artisan Revere: Elmax Super Steel Chef Knife' on Indiegogo. Manganese 0.30% Elmax is a particle metallurgy stainless steel made by Uddeholm. Bohler-Uddeholm and Erasteel also reportedly produce a finer powder size but this does not result in a significant change in carbide size because the limitation in carbide size is coarsening during processing rather than the size of the structure in the powder. The lowest values are for Uddeholm Elmax and Bohler M390, Crucible has roughly double the oxygen content of Bohler-Uddeholm, and Carpenter 204P has about 50% more than Crucible. CPM-20CV is Crucible’s version of Bohler’s popular M390 steel which also influenced Carpenter to copycat with CTS-204P. I think we will test some at some point. Ideally we would like to use steels that have the best possible toughness and wear resistance for a given amount of carbide. The microstructure has a strong effect on the final properties of the steel, though there are exceptions where the carbide type and size does not lead to the toughness that we might expect. The most questionable question every knife user or knife maker can have,“ What is the best steel for knives,” and many types of steel come out as an answer, on of these types is the CPM 3V or the 3V Steel, You name it.. in conjunction, It has also been suggested in some discussion in the Spyderco Forums about SPY-27 that the Cobalt addition should help maintain hardness during mechanical grinding and shaping. I've had several types of steels in my life but I've never had a super steel. From Russian Federation. Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! Iron sulfides melt at relatively low temperature, leading to liquid sulfides at forging temperatures, which makes hot rolling steel likely to fail. The 0.11% in Elmax may also be the result of a small intentional addition. I would also like to use the same polished samples to look at with scanning electron microscopy (SEM). Finding micrographs for individual steels can be difficult. In the original process, the steel is poured into the tundish several times to make a whole batch of powder. niobium .3 finer grain structure, toughness; hardness? XHP, CPM-154, and B75P are all primarily made up of chromium carbides, while Elmax, S35VN, S90V, and 20CV have a combination of chromium and vanadium carbides. The approximate composition of the matrix in terms of chromium and molybdenum can also be measured with Energy-dispersive X-ray spectroscopy (EDS). Is this real or imagined? At 64 Rc AEB-L is approximately equal to CruForgeV at the same hardness. element % notes For example, Uddeholm Vanadis 4 Extra and Crucible CPM-4V are basically identical steels and the carbide size is also roughly identical: And in looking at Bohler M390 and Crucible 20CV, which also have identical composition, the carbide size is very similar: You may notice that the carbide size is more different between M390 and Vanadis 4 Extra than between 4V and Vanadis 4 Extra. Perhaps the more “clumpy” carbides in Elmax or S35VN is detrimental to toughness. Some steels like Niolox and X50Cr15MoV have only a medium amount of carbide, but the presence of some large carbides reduces the overall toughness. Elmax; Knife Making Links. nickel .4 toughness; hot workability (Cu related?) I also made a comparison between a few of the “extra” elements in the steel which are not listed in the datasheet. Here are the compositions of each steel as provided by the manufacturer: We measured S and O with LECO combustion testing and other elements including phosphorous with optical emission spectroscopy (OES). Elmax; Knife Making Links. 10V was one of the earliest powder metallurgy steels, being patented in the 1970s, which is lacking in chromium carbides after heat treatment. The mid-carbon steels 8670, L6, and 5160 have the high toughness to match, while 1095 and O1 have only “OK” toughness given the small carbides. ELMAX is indeed a stainless steel, but exhibits edge-retention properties similar to A2 with ease of sharpening like O1. Top 10 related websites. Ranger green handles and a smoked gray, chromium nitride coated blade blend into nearly any environment. As I use mostly CPM154, 154CM and AEB-L stainless cutlery steel, I am looking for a way to darken a blade. Edge retention testing is continuing, we have now tested 18 different steels, and four of those steels with multiple heat treatments. Vanax (1975°F) – 18% nitride and carbide volume. Erasteel also has the facilities for producing powder under vacuum for specialty metals like titanium, but because of the higher cost and smaller batches this does not seem to have ever been used for knife steels that I have seen. Your discussion of trace tungsten content contradicts the values in the table: “the relatively high tungsten content in Elmax which is not an intentional addition according to the datasheet. The heating of the tundish with electrodes allows the longer process to take place for the finer powder. Thanks to Mike Mass for becoming a Knife Steel Nerds Patreon supporter! Each has a somewhat different composition to achieve the same thing – 15-18% vanadium carbide volume. nitrogen .5 In particular I would like to do 440C, 154CM, ZDP-189, S30V, S60V, S110V, S125V, CPM-M4, A2, 19C27, Blue Super, Blue #1, 1.2519, and 1.2442. When hardened to 57-59 HRC, though the steel can actually be ground up to 62 HRC, the knife has a good edge holding ability as well as a less-commonly found impact resistance- which is much higher than other stainless steels- and grinds as easily as the 154 CM steel, which is renowned for its easy grinding ability. An iron/nickel meteorite that might be put into damascus. On top of the liquid steel is where a layer of “slag” is formed of various oxides and other impurities, and we would like to avoid any slag getting into the final solidified product. › Knife steel nerds elmax › Knife steel nerds s35vn › Knife steel nerds lc200n. One of my first articles was a small collection of electron microscope images that I commissioned. Composition of Elmax Steel. Another comparison is between Crucible 10V, Bohler K390, and Uddeholm Vanadis 8. And finding micrographs for every steel with a similar magnification and etch is impossible. Comparing Carbide Structure with Toughness. It is used in the Zero Tolerance 0561, which was awarded Blade Magazine's "Collaboration of the Year" award in 2011. If the rest of the design can be balanced to avoid chromium carbide after heat treating then the higher chromium will not reduce toughness. Some steels seem to outperform their carbide volume, which would be an example of a steel with near-maximal toughness for that amount of carbide. Which company is providing the 1.2562? We tested both longitudinal and transverse specimens because transverse specimens are typically lower in toughness and may reveal superiority in carbide size, inclusions, or processing. I have an idea for a tougher steel with good edge holding, while retaining corrosion resistance. I have knives in such a vast array of steels it would be hard to list them all but maxamet, k390, s90v, rex121, rex45 are among them. As described earlier in this article, impurities phosphorous (P), sulfur (S), and oxygen (O), are the primary elements we look at in seeing how “clean” a steel is. High carbon in solution leads to brittle “plate martensite” which reduces toughness. In terms of non-stainless steels AEB-L is slightly better than 52100 and Z-Wear, an impressive showing, though it does not quite match the very tough 8670. ELMAX provides the extreme edge retention, high strength, and toughness a hard-use knife demands. I didn’t know much about this steel, so as a knife nerd, I decided to do some researches (a lot of research), and as always, I decided to review this steel. M2 high speed steel has a finer and better distributed microstructure than the previously shown D2 or CruWear: There is a general category of stainless steels which are carefully balanced to keep the amount of chromium carbide relatively small to keep the carbides small and the toughness high. https://www.patreon.com/Knifesteelnerds, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). Uddeholm has redeveloped several of their steels over the past couple decades to reduce or eliminate the Cr and Mo/W carbides so that the overall carbide size is reduced. Thanks to Mike Mass for becoming a Knife Steel Nerds Patreon supporter! High Quality EDC Knives & Fixed Blade Survival Knives Bradford Knives aims to provide you with the best fixed blades. There are various methods used in an attempt to limit the oxide and sulfide content of steel though it is impossible to reduce it to zero. $320.70. EDGE RETENTION: 9 CORROSION RESISTANCE: 7 EASE OF SHARPENING: 2. Niolox has a little bit less toughness than PM stainless steels like S35VN or Vanax which is probably also explained by the large carbides that are found in the steel. Elmax knife abuse; DAS macht ein gutes Messer aus Galileo ProSieben. The high toughness steels 5160, 15N20, L6, and 8670 barely have any carbide at all: The common high carbon steels 1095, 52100, and O1 have some carbide, still less than 6% or so. There are frequent discussions online about how heat treatment is more important than steel choice. The other comparison is CPM 20CV (Crucible) against M390 (Bohler). I've had several types of steels in my life but I've never had a super steel. I think the superior toughness of 4V is due to the minor differences in composition leading to lower “carbon in solution” rather than superior processing technology by either company. My guess is that DE razors certainly would suffer far more microchipping than the mach 3. We now have 50 total steels! By using this site, you accept our use of cookies. In some cases higher sulfur levels are intentionally added because a high content of MnS leads to greater ease in machining at the cost of some toughness. There are many reviews of ELMAX available on-line so I won't replicate them here. The Elmax steel chef knife could be the ultimate blade for your camp (or home) kitchen. According to Larrin from Knife Steel Nerds, the Cobalt addition will help with secondary hardening when tempering in the upper temperature range. The listed “explanations” are not complete; I am just expressing some of my thought process. Mit Federstahl und Feilen arbeitet er nicht. Each was given the same heat treatment of 2140°F austenitize, plate quench, cryo, and 365°F temper. I'd like to thank PhD Larrin at "Knife Steel Nerds" for sharing in most of this information in articles and conversations. [6] Lindwall, Greta. We want the content of each of those elements to be as low as possible. Was looking forward to the graphs for 15N20 but it didn’t make it onto any of them. Custom Knives BladeGallery; Chef's Knives Epicurean Edge; Practical & Tactical 20CV/M390/204P have an intentional tungsten addition according to each steel’s datasheet while Elmax does not. I am an amateur “knife nerd”. CPM-20CV. There is an email response from a Carpenter employee on the Spyderco forum [5] that provides some information on their powder metallurgy process. [8] Liebfahrt, Werner, and Roland Rabitsch. Factory edges are shit as it is, on these Exotic steels the edge is almost dull when you get the knife. For many steels micrographs are not available. S35VN is a steel developed and produced by Crucible Industries, released in 2009. High wear resistance in a steel usually means low corrosion resistance, but not with ELMAX. 2/10/2020: I added 26C3, 1.2442, 1.2519, 1.2562, Blue Super, V-Toku 2, and A8 Mod. You can see that different compositions and even similar carbide volumes can lead to very different looking carbides. The highest toughness powder metallurgy steel we have tested was Z-Tuff/CD1 which is produced by Carpenter. Hi Joe. It is difficult to know if there is a true size difference without a full statistical analysis. A 30% carbide volume steel is never going to have the toughness of a well heat treated 8670 or Z-Tuff, but a 0% carbide steel can be just as brittle. 1095 blades also tend to be thicker because a thin knife made of hard 1095 can be too brittle. Have you also considered looking into some of the original Wootz damascus to see what that might look like? goals: high toughness balanced with good edge holding and stability (at lower edge angles); good corrosion resistance. Having other people take images is a slow and expensive process. 1095 is a non-stainless carbon steel, with approximately 0.95% carbon in the blade.This makes for a tough knife that holds an excellent edge, but it's prone to rusting if you don't take care of it. It almost looks like they obscure the grain boundaries. This is my favorite test so far. The powder size is about half of the size of the “1st gen” process which is claimed to lead to a decrease in carbide size even relative to the original powder metallurgy process performed by Crucible. In choosing the best pocket knife you should pay particular attention to the type of steel used in the blade. And any others I can get my hands on and find the time to polish and etch. Also comparing with the vanadium carbide 10V the carbides are smaller than any of these stainless powder metallurgy steels. I have been knife testing and applying this knowledge first hand in my custom knife work. Vanadium 3.00%. For Steel Nerds. Please excuse any foibles; I appreciate the very helpful work that you do. Doing it ourselves allows us to make an apples to apples comparison of the microstructure of various steels. Thanks to Konstantinos Noulis, Neil MacEachern, and J Kane Searcy for becoming Knife Steel Nerds Patreon supporters! 16-19, 2006. Each blade is made with love and undisputed professionalism by award winning Master Bladesmith. Crucible had the highest level, at 0.49%. For slicing with a coarse finish you want high wear resistance. Regular carbon steel acid etches well, but stainless is much harder to darken. We also have some comparisons between Uddeholm Vanadis 4 Extra and Crucible 4V but have only condition that is identical between the two, because we had some specimens that ended up being undersized and could not be machined for testing. Watch; Interestingly 14C28N has the coarsest carbides of any of these steels, but all of them have very fine microstructures. One is CPM 4V (Crucible) compared with Vanadis 4 Extra (Uddeholm). Steels with large carbides or a large volume of them include D2, Rex 121, and N690, and all of those have relatively poor toughness. The composition of the powder metallurgy steels made a much larger impact on carbide size than the manufacturer. The carbides are, in general, very fine, though O1 has the largest carbides followed by 52100 and finally 1095. structure? When the oxides are larger than the carbides then the easiest point for crack initiation is the oxide rather than the carbides. There are many older powder metallurgy steels which were designed with this fact in mind, however. Low-alloy steels used in forging typically have relatively small amounts of carbide. Low alloy steels generally have a small amount of very tiny carbides which explains their relatively low wear resistance. Another impurity in steel apart from O and S is phosphorous (P), though it is not typically in the form of an inclusion so it is somewhat separate from the other two elements. or Best Offer +$35.00 shipping. The difference in technology has to do with the “tundish” that the liquid steel is poured into prior to atomization. I recently purchased equipment to polish steel for metallography. thanks from Portugal !!! The blade of a knife can be made from a variety of materials, the most common being carbon steel, stainless steel, tool steel and alloy steel.Other less-common materials used in knife blades include: cobalt and titanium alloys, ceramics, obsidian, and plastic. Hi Frank, there is a whole portion of metallurgy and microscopy dedicated to studying meteorites. It will likely oxidize over time depending on the working environment, 3V steel is not stainless. Good article, very useful information. This steel has a high resistance to wear and corrosion. Die Stahlsorten, mit denen Roman arbeitet kannst Du auf seiner Internetseite finden. John t, What a wealth of information I like seeing a company take the time to educate their customers it is appreciated thank you. With this advanced steel, you get both properties. Perhaps the change with vanadium leads to the difference in amount of carbide. However, this comparison illustrates that B-U steels do not necessarily have superior toughness. Knife Design . Original Vanadis 4 with larger chromium carbides (grey), Vanadis 4 Extra with a more uniform carbide size lacking in chromium carbides. The size of the inclusions may be significant, because the larger the inclusion the easier crack initiation is at the oxide. With this advanced steel, you get both properties, which makes it an excellent steel for high end folders. Steel type: Elmax. manganese .4 3V inspired percent Like many other very high wear resistance stainless steels S90V, M398) it was developed for plastic injection applications which necessitate a combination of high wear resistance and high corrosion resistance. Required fields are marked *. For Steel Nerds. For the same steel grade, according to my low understanding, I think the bars steel are better than the sheet steel, why is that? I appreciate you presenting so much science here. That lower temperature likely contributes to smaller carbides. But there are more subtle factors that lead to different levels of toughness even if heat treated “optimally.” We don’t always know how the different alloying elements and steel processing interact to lead to the final properties that we measure. (do not exceed .75 for maximum This increasing carbide content means that toughness is reduced but wear resistance is increased. An "inferior" steel like m390 or Elmax won t cut as much before getting dull, but at least you can sharpen them to whittle hair. There is also an intermediate technology called “Sprayform” which is cheaper than powder metallurgy but leads to a carbide size in between powder metallurgy and conventional production. Cold Steel S35VN, Steel Will M390; CTS XHP Steel to the max - Boosting the American Lawman; Heat Treat Hype? nitrogen .5 corrosion resistance; hardness; LC200N The chromium carbides are grey and the black carbides are MC (vanadium); the chromium carbides are larger than than the vanadium carbides. Come to Patreon if you want updates on testing as it is completed. Crucible-produced 3V also had excellent toughness. In order of decreasing hardness, next comes chromium carbides, then molybdenum/tungsten carbides found in high speed steel, and finally iron carbide (in low alloy steels). Erasteel, maker of powder metallurgy ASP-series of steels and RWL34, produced a new powder metallurgy facility in the early 1990s which was developed to have a larger tundish. Common Use Case: To create a profile of well balanced high-quality attributes. I don’t think there’s an easy answer. Not all conventionally produced steels have the same looking microstructures. The A to Z of Blade Steels - New Edge Retention Roundup; Steel Nerd News! I wrote about how powder metallurgy steel production works and the history of it in this article. I … I am torn between the three steels. ... M390, and Elmax at lower hardness. Rex 121 has extremely high wear resistance while Z-Tuff has relatively low wear resistance. In those cases decreasing the carbide size while maintaining the same carbide volume improved toughness. I have not tested the toughness of them to compare, but the carbide sizes are relatively similar: From the micrographs it looks like 10V and Vanadis 8 have somewhat less carbide volume and smaller carbides than the Bohler K390. A steel that is overheated in hardening and then tempered in the embrittlement range will have poor toughness nor matter what. molybdenum 2 corrosion resistance; anti brittleness; The Vanadis 4 Extra was 0.6 Rc harder, though. It edge retention? The X50Cr15MoV steel has surprisingly low toughness, perhaps that is explained by the scattered large carbides that were seen in the micrographs. And some steels seem to do poorly in toughness testing despite small carbides. In comparisons between various products there does not seem to be much difference in carbide size between different companies. Developed by the renowned Austrian steel firm Böhler-Uddeholm, M390 was created to offer extremely high wear resistance and corrosion resistance for demanding manufacturing applications like the plastic molding industry. The reason I'm advising this is that the EnZo Trapper is now available in ELMAX - one of the highest regarded modern "super steels" available. “Elmax – A third generation Austrian, powder-metal stainless steel that is noted for its fine carbide distribution with extremely low inclusion content.” Elmax is made in Sweden. Edge retention testing is continuing, we have now tested 18 different steels, and four of those steels with multiple heat treatments. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Carpenter was also high at 0.41%. Your email address will not be published. I have previously written about carbide size differences in this article on micrographs. In other words, the steel composition is more important for carbide size than the production process. The properties of knife steels are greatly controlled by the volume fraction, size, and distribution of carbides. However, there are relatively large segregated regions with large chromium carbides: The in-development NioMax has a much more uniform microstructure. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. My point being this... DE blades are more akin to higher carbon simpler steel and a mach 3 is something like an elmax steel. Impurities and Inclusions in Powder Metallurgy Steels. Below shows micrographs of Vanadis 4 Extra and Vanadis 4 where you can see the carbide size difference.

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