two hill cumorah theory

FairMormon wants you to think that Church leaders, beginning with Joseph Smith, have no idea where the hill Cumorah is. If the battle took place the last day of the Nephite year, that puts it some time in April. They’ve listened to a board of education and the board would instruct those that this is what the board wants and these designing men would say, “You pay no attention to that. This panel is a parody of the Two Cumorah theory. Unlike Cerro el Vigia, one proposed hill in Mexico, the New York hill rises 220-230 feet from base to top. A “hill” of 2,700 feet is a mountain and surely would have been described as such by Mormon. Mormon archeologists overwhelmingly favor the "two Cumorahs" theory, while conservative theologians and some leaders prefer the view that only one Cumorah exists. If one subscribes to the theory that events in the Book of Mormon took place in Central and/or South America, then one automatically subscribes to the theory that there were two Hill Cumorahs. Just click on leave a comment below. The book of 3 Nephi gives us insight into how their calendar was laid out. [False claim, but fair inference because Joseph referred to the hill as Cumorah and strongly endorsed Oliver's Letter VII.] That makes the wording a little ambiguous, leaving FairMormon a little room to assert its interpretation that, in fact, Elder Lee was repudiating Joseph, Oliver, and all of their contemporaries and successors. From this, FairMormon wants us to think the location of Cumorah is unknown and has never been known; i.e., Joseph and Oliver didn’t know, so when they said it was a fact that the final battles took place in the mile-wide valley west of the hill Cumorah in New York, they were merely speculating. The next sentence, as I read it, says “if Cumorah is not in New York, he would have given us the latitude and longitude.”. That place was sacred, holy ground. Second, that it is impossible to have a room in the New York Hill Cumorah. It was not until the 1960’s that it became clear that the Hill Cumorah of wesern New York was simply too far from central America to fit in with the idea that Jaredites and Nephites had landed in central America and later migrated to New York. Harold B. Lee, “Loyalty,” address to religious educators, 8 July 1966; in Charge to Religious Educators, 2nd ed. FairMormon likes to emphasize the next sentence: “Well, if the Lord wanted us to know where it was or where Zarahemla was, he’d have given us latitude and longitude, don’t you think?”. This theory proposes that although Moroni buried the plates in the hill in New York, this hill is not the Hill Cumorah of the Book of Mormon, that housed Mormon’s repository and where the last battles of both the Jaredites and the Nephites took place. Third, not only is the statement obscure and isolated, but the nature of the transcript suggests that in this section of his talk Elder Lee was not reading a prepared text, but was extemporaneously giving additional examples of false teachings. Another good argument is that it is a hill. For those three reasons alone, the prudent course would be to recognize the comment as an off-the-record, unprepared extemporaneous expression that doesn’t merit in-depth analysis. You’re an ideal, you’re a trained teacher. And if you’re disloyal in your teaching, and if you lead them astray and put poisonous thoughts in their minds, it may be the thing that will keep them from ever attaining the high place in the kingdom.” (emphasis added). This is what we’re going to do.” The men under you will never be loyal to you if they see that you are disloyal to those who preside in authority over you. You’re teaching one day this and one moment this and someone comes in that would criticize, and immediately you shift into low gear or high gear as the case might be. In verses 11-14 he lists 13 leaders whose ten thousands had fallen. Another one that they frequently ask is: “Is it necessary for one to receive his second endowments to be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise?” And I said, “Where did you get that from?” And you know a good many of them are traced back to one teacher. It is called promised land because it was where all started, is the land of Adam and Eve, the land of the Patriarchs, including Noah. grego. or M2C (Mesoamerica – Two Cumorah) The theory is that the hill in New York IS where Joseph Smith obtained the plates, but it is NOT the Hill Cumorah from the Book of Mormon. And they were wrong because the scholars have established criteria for Cumorah that don’t fit New York. Today it’s the same. Some say the Hill Cumorah was in Southern Mexico (and someone pushed it down still farther) and not in Western New York. Proudly powered by the Mormon Media Network, by Energy Media LLC. Therefore, there must have been no winter. Some say the Manifesto relative to plural marriage was not a revelation.4. Did Zelph live during the time frame of the Hopewell Culture. Unlike Cerro el Vigia, one proposed hill in Mexico, the New York hill rises 220-230 feet from base to top. He’d written a text to be used in the Institutes and when it was turned down and was not acceptable because it was not correct, he just campaigned and he now has such a rank apostate attitude that he declares that he doesn’t believe the Church was organized as Section 20 of the Doctrine and Covenants says it was. And he was an adroit teacher, and he fooled everybody for a long time. First, it is remarkable that FairMormon resorts to this obscure 1966 statement to repudiate the explicit and consistent teachings of ordained Church leaders from Joseph and Oliver in 1835 through at least Elder Mark E. Peterson, speaking in General Conference in 1978, all of whom have affirmed that Cumorah is in New York. (Salt Lake City: Church Educational System and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1982), 65; cited in Dennis B. Horne (ed. Abstract. Their theory is that the hill on which Mormon fought the last battle with the Lamanites is not the same hill in which Joseph Smith found the gold plates. To review: The "two-Cumorahs" theory was developed by Mesoamerican advocates to justify their theories that the Book of Mormon took place in Central America. The Hill Cumorah is located on Highway 21, two miles north of Interstate 90, Exit 43. The basic premise of the “two-Cumorahs” theory is that Joseph and Oliver were ignorant speculators who misled the Church because in Letter VII they declared it was a fact that the final battles took place in the valley west of the Hill Cumorah in New York.They also said that Mormon’s depository (Mormon 6:6) was in the same hill. This poisonous thought is the foundation beneath the Mesoamerican/two-Cumorahs theory, because if Joseph and Oliver told the truth, then there is one Hill Cumorah (Mormon 6:6) and it is in New York–which means the Mesoamerican/two-Cumorahs theory is false. Cumorah photo, 1907 by George Edward Anderson, Where to start. Other examples of naming places in honor of someplace else are Bethlehem, PA or Bethesda, MA. It’s true that in 1966, Elder Lee did not quote President Smith’s comment about the Mesoamerican/two-Cumorahs theory. Joseph Smith believed the Hill in New York to be the Hill Cumorah from the Book of Mormon and Moroni never corrected that assumption. Cumorah must be a significant landmark. It’s still a long passage, but if you want to understand how FairMormon is misleading its readers, you need to read the whole thing. It’s in blue below. 6- What is the best source to find Scriptural Evidence that the BofM happened in North America? I welcome input and correction of any factual or logical errors that appear here. New York, Pennsylvania and Ohio are home to nearly 400 lakes including the Great Lakes. Now if that isn’t a revelation I don’t understand. Looking at recorded temperatures for mid April in Upstate New York of the past 100 years, we find that temperatures in the 80s are not uncommon. His plan was to save as much Nephites as possible and to give his son, Moroni, a clear possibility to keep and protect the plates, while the rest of the records would be hidden from the Lamanites. The “REAL” Hill Cumorah is down in Veracruz, Mexico. Speaking of the great storm and destruction that accompanied the death of Christ, it reads: “And it came to pass in the thirty and fourth year, in the first month, on the fourth day of the month, there arose a great storm, such an one as never had been known in all the land.” (3 Nephi 8:5). This modernistic theory of necessity, in order to be consistent, must place the waters of Ripliancum and the Hill Cumorah some place within the restricted territory of Central America, notwithstanding the teachings of the Church to the contrary for upwards of 100 years. For years, FairMormon has tried to persuade members of the Church that Church leaders have no idea about the location of Cumorah and that they have left it up to the scholars to figure out. It was a William Marks. He repeatedly stated that the largest of all, the very Hill Cumorah, marked the site of the final battles of two civilizations. Every member of the Church–every teacher in the Church–needs to decide for himself/herself if you want to parse Elder Lee’s comment so as to leave it open for you to embrace the Mesoamerican/two-Cumorahs theory. We have added a red dot to indicate where the Hill Cumorah is located on this map. Offer cannot be redeemed for cash or gift cards or applied to previous purchases. Elder Spencer W. Kimball became President on December 30 and retained President Romney as his Second Counselor. No one doubts that the hill where Joseph Smith received the plates is known as Cumorah, but is the hill where the final battles between the Nephites and Lamanites took place another Cumorah? So let’s consider the comment in detail. http://bookofmormonwars.blogspot.com/2016/10/more-prophets-and-apostles-for-lds.html, Elephant Petroglyph on the Allegheny River. Offer can be combined with select other promotional offers. (c) 2010. Mormon scholars have presented a number of theories to explain the Cumorahs. He affirmed that the final battles of the Jaredites and Nephites took place right there, in western New York. The location of the "Hill Cumorah" referenced in the text of the Book of Mormon has not been revealed to us. Things like, “Does the Church have possession of the Urim and Thummim?” And I said I don’t know. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! Jared “returned” to the land of their parents, Lehi, Mulek and others also returned to this “sacred and promised land.” Time doesn’t permit, of course, to elaborate on these, and much more might be said…. One in Central America where the great finals battles took place, and another some 5,000 miles away in New York to where Moroni traveled for the sole purpose of depositing the plates. What is the Smoking Gun of Book of Mormon Geography? Today 8,000 chairs are set up in one small space at the northwest corner of the hill for the annual Hill Cumorah Pageant. Underlinings are in the original. One in Central America where the great finals battles took place, and another some 5,000 miles away in New York to where Moroni traveled for the sole purpose of depositing the plates. Copyright © 2014 by Energy Media Works LLC, When using portions of this article, please credit: JosephKnew.com. 4- Where did the Mulekites Land? None of what I write is intended to be disrespectful or personal. Thanks The Hill Cumorah in Manchester, New York, is the place where Joseph Smith met annually with the angel Moroni from 1823 to 1827. The only mention of being on the hill is in verse 11 when he climbs to the top of the hill, “when the Lamanites had returned unto their camps”. What is the best source to find Scriptural Evidence that the BofM happened in North America? This is taken from the source cited above and the typewritten 1966 version, obtained from the Church History Library, which is apparently a transcript of the talk as given instead of prepared remarks._____, Now you as teachers are not being sent out to teach new doctrine. 6:6.) Because of this theory some members of the Church have become confused and greatly disturbed in their faith in the Book of Mormon. ), Determining Doctrine: A Reference Guide for Evaluation Doctrinal Truth (Roy, Utah: Eborn Books, 2005), 172-173. https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Source:Harold_B._Lee:8_Jul_1966:if_the_Lord_wanted_us_to_know_where_it_was%2C_or_where_Zarahemla_was%2C_he%E2%80%99d_have_given_us_latitude_and_longitude%2C_don%E2%80%99t_you_think%3F. I admire and respect everyone who serves others in any capacity. The promised land is a “specific” place in North America. Does the Church have possession of the Urim and Thummim?2. A. Cumorah is a pivotal issue for understanding the historicity of the Book of Mormon and the credibility of Joseph, Oliver, and their contemporaries and successors. The 2-Hill Cumorah Theory 24m While most of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints focus the origins of the Book of Mormon cities to be in Mesoamerica, a growing movement asks the question about the Hill Cumorah, located in Palmyra, New York. “Better that a millstone be tied about your neck and you be drowned in the depths of the ocean than to offend one of our Father’s little ones. A forum for ex-mormons and others who have been affected by mormonism to share news … There are those who believe that there are two Hill Cumorahs. This single verse in Alma and the fact that the Lamanites came to battle wearing nothing but a loin cloth have caused many to believe Book of Mormon lands must have been tropical.

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